Dana has also been generous to me with his time and encouragement. It really is magical. I hear similar stories from scores of people, from teachers at a Montessori school whose class he invited to his home where he read from his poetry, and who told me he helped one of the teachers get her novel published, to several literary women he emails, to a retired San Jose English professor who told me Dana keeps giving him books, and more. I've written several articles about his contributions as a Catholic culture critic and events he's performed at, and he now credits me with being the chronicler of the Catholic arts revival. Such an accolade from such a mensch. I'm delighted to have found you too!
Loved this! It's great. When did you do the interview? Pity the beautiful has been out quite a long time.
I love this quote too: "It seems to me that right now American poetry has to do two things: Regain the territory we lost to prose, to movies to pop music, to tell stories, to be enchanting, to be lyrical, to speak to us as complete human beings. The second thing is to begin to answer the spiritual hungers or spiritual numbness that we see everywhere around us."
A lovely interview, Mary (saved it for a day when I could sit with it). I'm struck by how differently my mentor, Ted Kooser, approaches poetry. There is music to it, of course, but for Ted (and for me), poetry is image and idea-driven. It's a kind of Romantic idea to be able to compress an experience or a complex concept into an image or a metaphor that then enables a similar epiphany for the reader.
Also love Dana's point about the stupidity of American culture, which has only gotten worse since this conversation. And the depressing thing is that even colleges aren't terribly interested in the life of the mind anymore! As the news about Gettysburg Review illustrates. It's perhaps not surprising, because reading comprehension in K-12 is assessed based on fragments, not longform wholes. As Sam has written, maybe the kind of literacy that you and Dana and I recall was always a fleeting aberration from the majority of human history.
Great interview! This was a while back. I saw Dana on Zoom just yesterday for my MFA class on iambic pentameter and lineation. I am in one of the few poetry programs that teaches prosody in a strict way. And about a week ago I had lunch with Dana and others after his talk at Boston College. It was a treat.
Agree with Gioia, Felix, and you, Mary, on prosody in free verse, which is far too often merely prosaic. Tidbit: the brothers Gioia hold almost the same three academic degrees, except that Dana earned his M.S. from Harvard, Ted from Oxford. Second tidbit: they share being sons of Hawthorne, CA with the Beach Boys.
It’s quite the family. Also, Meet Me at the Lighthouse, Dana’s latest book of poetry features a jazz club that his brother Ted writes about in his book West Coast Jazz.
Very insightful questions and answers. Perhaps there are healthier takeaways, but his pessimism certainly validates a lot of my own. His students are luckier than I suspect they realize. I also agree with Gioia when it comes to form. Free verse feels liberating, but unless a poet knows what to do with it it's as liberating as being in a one-story building. Many buildings have other stories.
Some takeaways I enjoyed (or, in one case, saddened me): "My students though are shocked when I actually ask them what a word in a poem means."
"My own sense, and I know this is heretical to most people, is that the musical organization has always been the central lifeblood of poetry."
Thank you, Felix. So agree about the importance of prosody to "free" verse. Here is more of T.S. Eliot's advice: “… no verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. … [A] great deal of bad prose has been written under the name of free verse …. [O]nly a bad poet could welcome free verse as a liberation from form." —from his essay “The Music of Poetry” in _On Poetry and Poets_ . He's not, of course, arguing against free verse but instead I use the old saw when I teach: You've got to know the rules to break them. Gioia clearly understands this.
Dana has also been generous to me with his time and encouragement. It really is magical. I hear similar stories from scores of people, from teachers at a Montessori school whose class he invited to his home where he read from his poetry, and who told me he helped one of the teachers get her novel published, to several literary women he emails, to a retired San Jose English professor who told me Dana keeps giving him books, and more. I've written several articles about his contributions as a Catholic culture critic and events he's performed at, and he now credits me with being the chronicler of the Catholic arts revival. Such an accolade from such a mensch. I'm delighted to have found you too!
Loved this! It's great. When did you do the interview? Pity the beautiful has been out quite a long time.
I love this quote too: "It seems to me that right now American poetry has to do two things: Regain the territory we lost to prose, to movies to pop music, to tell stories, to be enchanting, to be lyrical, to speak to us as complete human beings. The second thing is to begin to answer the spiritual hungers or spiritual numbness that we see everywhere around us."
A while ago ... So glad you love it. It was magical for me.
Maslow’s Rubik Cube!!!
Thank you, Sherman, for reading.
As always, wise and thoughtful.
A lovely interview, Mary (saved it for a day when I could sit with it). I'm struck by how differently my mentor, Ted Kooser, approaches poetry. There is music to it, of course, but for Ted (and for me), poetry is image and idea-driven. It's a kind of Romantic idea to be able to compress an experience or a complex concept into an image or a metaphor that then enables a similar epiphany for the reader.
Also love Dana's point about the stupidity of American culture, which has only gotten worse since this conversation. And the depressing thing is that even colleges aren't terribly interested in the life of the mind anymore! As the news about Gettysburg Review illustrates. It's perhaps not surprising, because reading comprehension in K-12 is assessed based on fragments, not longform wholes. As Sam has written, maybe the kind of literacy that you and Dana and I recall was always a fleeting aberration from the majority of human history.
Great interview! This was a while back. I saw Dana on Zoom just yesterday for my MFA class on iambic pentameter and lineation. I am in one of the few poetry programs that teaches prosody in a strict way. And about a week ago I had lunch with Dana and others after his talk at Boston College. It was a treat.
You sent me a photo for which I remain grateful. Thank you for reading and for this. xo
That's M.A.
Agree with Gioia, Felix, and you, Mary, on prosody in free verse, which is far too often merely prosaic. Tidbit: the brothers Gioia hold almost the same three academic degrees, except that Dana earned his M.S. from Harvard, Ted from Oxford. Second tidbit: they share being sons of Hawthorne, CA with the Beach Boys.
Lovely additions, Jay.
It’s quite the family. Also, Meet Me at the Lighthouse, Dana’s latest book of poetry features a jazz club that his brother Ted writes about in his book West Coast Jazz.
Very insightful questions and answers. Perhaps there are healthier takeaways, but his pessimism certainly validates a lot of my own. His students are luckier than I suspect they realize. I also agree with Gioia when it comes to form. Free verse feels liberating, but unless a poet knows what to do with it it's as liberating as being in a one-story building. Many buildings have other stories.
Some takeaways I enjoyed (or, in one case, saddened me): "My students though are shocked when I actually ask them what a word in a poem means."
"My own sense, and I know this is heretical to most people, is that the musical organization has always been the central lifeblood of poetry."
Thank you, Felix. So agree about the importance of prosody to "free" verse. Here is more of T.S. Eliot's advice: “… no verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job. … [A] great deal of bad prose has been written under the name of free verse …. [O]nly a bad poet could welcome free verse as a liberation from form." —from his essay “The Music of Poetry” in _On Poetry and Poets_ . He's not, of course, arguing against free verse but instead I use the old saw when I teach: You've got to know the rules to break them. Gioia clearly understands this.