Oh Eleanor so well thought through. What a weigh station of life to have reached! I’m not an expert in notes and publishing however methinks your words are life wisdom. Boundary setting and carving a space for our creativity to flourish in the world takes some experience and time to understand our many complex layers. Insert wine and rolling hills metaphors.. it’s very inspiring to read about your confidence and knowing.
Very relatable... here I am 20+ years later... at least we become better writers in the process and learn which notes to take note of. Thank you so much for sharing this experience.
I have my first manuscript under consideration by a few agents and I know it’s a dreadful time for memoir and but what sticks with me here, aside from a reminder of the resiliency it takes, is your line about who would even hear you throw in the towel? There’s no one to protest here. There’s just commitment to your craft. It’s an enormous relief to have substack and a way to find an audience in the meantime. And a community of people trying trying trying. Thank you for sharing your journey. It helps.
My pleasure, Eliza, and the best of luck to you. The "no one will hear me if I quit" egocentric as it is, has often got me through some sticky moments.
Frankenstiened a really good short story once. Filled it with the suggestions of well-meaning note givers and ended up with a disjointed monstrosity of 2nd hand notions interpreted badly onto the screen by me. The horror!
"My novel had become a Frankenstein" : ) A novel ages the moment you start. Speed is the key. If it doesn't sell immediately it ages even quicker. Pretty soon your characters are putting quarters into pay phones : )
Thinking about 'not enough plot' (pfft) makes me thinks how any number of the duds that I've read of late have been spoiled because they've had too *much* plot - too many clunky reveals, too little setup, too much emphasis on some big SURPRISE at the end, tedious subplots that fizzle out. All high concept and no knickers. Also, plot at the expense of character and voice and tone.
I think you nail it when you say things have to be *earned*. And too: confidence in yourself - which will come through in the voice, and add to the appeal.
I can relate to your journey. I wrote a first novel, got a good agent quickly who couldn't sell it to the top tier. She asked me to choose between the next tier and revision–––it was a novel about the 2008 financial crisis and non-fiction about '08 had sold well, but not novels. I chose to revise and move the timeframe. After a few years of revision, my agent retired and I was left agent-less. Then Covid struck.
For now, I've decided I prefer non-fiction and the pace and feedback of weekly Substack posts. Going back into that fiction world scares me. For now.
But your post gave me perspective and a little more courage. So thank you (I think!).
It really is a brutal business. As a friend of mine says, writers have to have the sensitivity of a butterfly and the hind of a rhinoceros to survive, and that's when things are generally going well. A thousand times over I've threatened to call it quits, until I realise that no one would really notice except me, and I'd be sad because when it does go well and it's my turn on the merry go round, it's the best fun I can have. Good luck! I feel your pain and your joy.
Eleanor, I didn't remember that I had read and commented on this four months ago.
My second read of this was entirely different. In my first comment, I wrote that I was scared of fiction from the experience of writing the first. Now I'm committed to writing a second novel, and this essay of yours is one I will return to again and again for sustenance. Thank you.
I just discovered the cross-post option! Glad to give it another run around the park, and interesting to hear how your reading of it has changed. Courage and bravo for the 2nd novel.
Guilty of not enough plot 🙋🏼♀️ but then I’ve read enough French novels to know that it’s ok! I love this reflection. It’s so hard to navigate feedback (especially mixed with marketing). Great message, thanks 💜💜
So many essential points here -- too many to reference. I realized, after finishing my still-unpublished novel, that I'd done a very stupid thing commercially by grounding it in two places, Iowa and Idaho, that agents don't generally care about. But that was the story I wanted/needed to tell. Replacing one of those settings with New York or L.A. would have changed the story in ways I wasn't interested in considering.
If it's any consolation, Willa Cather has often been criticized for lacking plot. Nothing really happens in Shadows on the Rock or Death Comes for the Archbishop, yet they are among my favorites.
Or, for that matter, The Unbearable Lightness of Being, or Death In Venice, or The Collector, or or or - I could go on and on. hey ho. But as I said, never take notes from an editor not offering you a deal.... And, yes, I hear you, in taking an artistic decision rather than a commercial one. Here in lies the balancing act.
Brilliant, and seemingly heaven sent because it’s exactly what I needed to see today. And what I wish I’d seen years ago. Wonderful storytelling too. And funny.
This is wonderful! It made me want to run out and get your novel, which I've placed on hold at my local library. Can't wait to dig in. Thank you, Eleanor.
"I can watch the note bleed out, knowing it would kill my book. It’s me or you, baby, and it’s not going to be me."
Brilliant!
🙌🏻
Oh Eleanor so well thought through. What a weigh station of life to have reached! I’m not an expert in notes and publishing however methinks your words are life wisdom. Boundary setting and carving a space for our creativity to flourish in the world takes some experience and time to understand our many complex layers. Insert wine and rolling hills metaphors.. it’s very inspiring to read about your confidence and knowing.
Thanks, Kaama. I appreciate your saying that.
*way lol
Very relatable... here I am 20+ years later... at least we become better writers in the process and learn which notes to take note of. Thank you so much for sharing this experience.
Thanks, Veronika. "How to handle notes" should be a module in every writing course.
I have my first manuscript under consideration by a few agents and I know it’s a dreadful time for memoir and but what sticks with me here, aside from a reminder of the resiliency it takes, is your line about who would even hear you throw in the towel? There’s no one to protest here. There’s just commitment to your craft. It’s an enormous relief to have substack and a way to find an audience in the meantime. And a community of people trying trying trying. Thank you for sharing your journey. It helps.
My pleasure, Eliza, and the best of luck to you. The "no one will hear me if I quit" egocentric as it is, has often got me through some sticky moments.
Frankenstiened a really good short story once. Filled it with the suggestions of well-meaning note givers and ended up with a disjointed monstrosity of 2nd hand notions interpreted badly onto the screen by me. The horror!
"My novel had become a Frankenstein" : ) A novel ages the moment you start. Speed is the key. If it doesn't sell immediately it ages even quicker. Pretty soon your characters are putting quarters into pay phones : )
Thinking about 'not enough plot' (pfft) makes me thinks how any number of the duds that I've read of late have been spoiled because they've had too *much* plot - too many clunky reveals, too little setup, too much emphasis on some big SURPRISE at the end, tedious subplots that fizzle out. All high concept and no knickers. Also, plot at the expense of character and voice and tone.
I think you nail it when you say things have to be *earned*. And too: confidence in yourself - which will come through in the voice, and add to the appeal.
All high concept and no knickers. hahaha. and also Grrrrrr. You said it my friend xxx
Each to their own, times and places (let's not totally judge the knickerless!). BUT! Grrr xxx
Heart, word, brutal, true -- as we try not to break.
I keep thinking I’m just start writing crime novels. They have such a consistent audience and clear expectations. Rez Noir.
So true. It's exactly what a friend of mine has done, publishing under a different name to her lit fiction novels. Rez Noir. Sign me up.
Deeply helpful/reassuring/frank.
I can relate to your journey. I wrote a first novel, got a good agent quickly who couldn't sell it to the top tier. She asked me to choose between the next tier and revision–––it was a novel about the 2008 financial crisis and non-fiction about '08 had sold well, but not novels. I chose to revise and move the timeframe. After a few years of revision, my agent retired and I was left agent-less. Then Covid struck.
For now, I've decided I prefer non-fiction and the pace and feedback of weekly Substack posts. Going back into that fiction world scares me. For now.
But your post gave me perspective and a little more courage. So thank you (I think!).
It really is a brutal business. As a friend of mine says, writers have to have the sensitivity of a butterfly and the hind of a rhinoceros to survive, and that's when things are generally going well. A thousand times over I've threatened to call it quits, until I realise that no one would really notice except me, and I'd be sad because when it does go well and it's my turn on the merry go round, it's the best fun I can have. Good luck! I feel your pain and your joy.
Eleanor, I didn't remember that I had read and commented on this four months ago.
My second read of this was entirely different. In my first comment, I wrote that I was scared of fiction from the experience of writing the first. Now I'm committed to writing a second novel, and this essay of yours is one I will return to again and again for sustenance. Thank you.
I just discovered the cross-post option! Glad to give it another run around the park, and interesting to hear how your reading of it has changed. Courage and bravo for the 2nd novel.
Guilty of not enough plot 🙋🏼♀️ but then I’ve read enough French novels to know that it’s ok! I love this reflection. It’s so hard to navigate feedback (especially mixed with marketing). Great message, thanks 💜💜
Thanks Kathleen. When this particular novel is published I might put that comment on the cover. So tempting.
So many essential points here -- too many to reference. I realized, after finishing my still-unpublished novel, that I'd done a very stupid thing commercially by grounding it in two places, Iowa and Idaho, that agents don't generally care about. But that was the story I wanted/needed to tell. Replacing one of those settings with New York or L.A. would have changed the story in ways I wasn't interested in considering.
If it's any consolation, Willa Cather has often been criticized for lacking plot. Nothing really happens in Shadows on the Rock or Death Comes for the Archbishop, yet they are among my favorites.
Or, for that matter, The Unbearable Lightness of Being, or Death In Venice, or The Collector, or or or - I could go on and on. hey ho. But as I said, never take notes from an editor not offering you a deal.... And, yes, I hear you, in taking an artistic decision rather than a commercial one. Here in lies the balancing act.
Brilliant, and seemingly heaven sent because it’s exactly what I needed to see today. And what I wish I’d seen years ago. Wonderful storytelling too. And funny.
Thanks Elizabeth. Love it when words land at just the right moment.
Word.
Love it.
This is wonderful! It made me want to run out and get your novel, which I've placed on hold at my local library. Can't wait to dig in. Thank you, Eleanor.
Hooray! I love to hear that. Thanks Carol. Have a beautiful day.